The Bar Business Podcast: Smart Hospitality & Marketing Secrets For Bar & Pub Owners
Welcome to the Bar Business Podcast, where we help bar owners increase profits, attract loyal guests, and simplify operations without burnout so you can finally enjoy life outside the bar. Our host, Chris Schneider, draws on his over twenty years of experience in the industry to bring you valuable insights and practical advice every week. From creating a winning menu and designing a stylish bar, to effective marketing strategies and HR best practices, we've got you covered. Join us on the journey to bar business success and take the first step towards a brighter future for your establishment.
The Bar Business Podcast: Smart Hospitality & Marketing Secrets For Bar & Pub Owners
Empowering Bar Teams: Emily LaRuffa on Sustainable Profitability and Strategic Leadership
What if you could revolutionize your bar's profitability while creating a supportive, empowered team? This week on the Bar Business Podcast, we welcome Emily LaRuffa, owner of Oracle Hospitality Consulting, who shares her deep-seated knowledge from years in New York City's high-octane hospitality scene.
Imagine slashing costs and optimizing your menu with sustainability in mind. We dive into the nuts and bolts of managing a tiki bar's cocktail offerings, highlighting the importance of ingredient cross-utilization, like using every part of a pineapple. Emily breaks down how daily P-MIX reports can realign your menu with guest preferences and real-time sales, ensuring that your pricing strategies hit the mark. This blend of strategic costing and smart pricing not only boosts efficiency but also enhances guest satisfaction, making this segment a goldmine for bar owners and managers aiming for financial prowess.
Leadership isn't just about giving orders—it's about empowering your team with knowledge and support. Emily and I explore the transformative impact of financial transparency and operational backing on management and employees alike. From the significance of training management in financial literacy to the necessity of advanced scheduling techniques to prevent burnout, we cover it all. This episode is a comprehensive guide to creating a motivated, high-performing team, where clear communication, thoughtful scheduling, and innovative technology ensure a healthy work-life balance. Join us and learn how to turn your bar into a thriving, efficient, and supportive workplace.
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Welcome to the Bar Business Podcast, where we help bar owners increase profits, attract loyal guests, and simplify operations without burnout so you can finally enjoy life outside the bar. Our podcast is packed with valuable insights, expert advice, and inspiring stories from successful bar owners and industry professionals.
Thank you to our show sponsor, SpotOn. SpotOn's modern, cloud-based POS system allows bars to increase team productivity and provides the reporting you need to make smart financial decisions.
**We are a SpotOn affiliate and earn commissions from the link above.
Thank you to our benchmarking data partner Starfish. Starfish works with your bookkeeping software using AI to help you make data-driven decisions and maximize your profits while giving you benchmarking data to understand how you compare to the industry at large.
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You're listening to the Bar Business Podcast where every week, your host, chris Schneider, brings you information, strategies and news on the bar industry, giving you the competitive edge you need to start working on your bar rather than in your bar.
Chris Schneider:Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the Bar Business Podcast, your ultimate resource for bar owners. I'm your host, chris Schneider, and in today's episode I am joined by Emily LaRuffa. Emily is a industry consultant who owns Oracle Hospitality Consulting, and she comes from decades of management experience in New York City over multiple venues. She's done openings. She's done some very high volume venues that I think one of them was over like 20 million a year Blows my mind, but she definitely has some really solid experience in the New York market and her most recent job, before she made the move to consulting, was at Manhattan, which is one of Danny Meyer's places in New in new york city. Uh, we are full disclosure friends and we talk a lot, and so one of the reasons why we're friends is because we both love data and the numbers and all of that.
Chris Schneider:So I will apologize to everyone right now. If we get in an argument over prime cost, just know that the podcast version is two hours long shorter, rather than the argument we had about prime cost a few days ago. Right, so just we might get in the weeds. But with that, emily, why don't I let you introduce yourself and just fill everybody in a little bit more on your back? Sure.
Emily LaRuffa:Hi, chris, good to see you again. Like you said, we talk all the time. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate being able to hop on a call with you and talk about what we're both passionate about. You know, and debate each other like we always do, and just go down our rabbit holes, but not too much, because no one wants to sit here for hours and listen to it, probably. Thank you for that lovely introduction. I really appreciate it.
Emily LaRuffa:Quick background of who I am, what I do I have been in the hospitality industry for over 20 years. You know I started off as a server, went to bartender, you know, for years and then went into bar managing, beverage director, bar programs, beverage directors of hotels management general manager, dos. Directors of hotels, management, general manager, dos. So really just had a career of just learning every single role, worked my way up so that you know, to the top level. You know that I could have been at, besides not opening my own place, which was a dream of mine too but at the same time I think I've made the right decision, you know, to not do that as we discuss all the time. You know what the rates are of what that looks like. I love what I do, you know, and there are many reasons of why I do love what I do.
Emily LaRuffa:And now going into the consulting world, you know, I took the last couple of years and, yes, my last venue was over $24 million in one year, you know, and seven event spaces and two restaurants and hundreds of employees, and I, you know, with the shutdown, I looked at that and I said is this what I want to be doing, you know?
Emily LaRuffa:And so over the last year and a half, since I stepped back from operations, I said let me take everything that I have done and let's turn it into something that is going to be helpful and utilized and can make more of a difference in this world, in this hospitality industry. I think that is a big thing that we talk about of how can we make a difference. And so that's really my background. I've had, you know, just really worked my way up. I've been in everyone's shoes before and I think that's something that I always have to remember and remind myself and remind others. I know what it feels like, you know, and people just want empathy because it's a very hard business to be in. So, yeah, that's my that's, that's my career. And here I am, you know, in a new world.
Chris Schneider:You know. I think it's important to point out, because there's a lot of folks that do what we do in this business.
Chris Schneider:There are a lot of consultants out there, but we all come from different angles and different backgrounds. Right? So, for instance, you would probably be very comfortable consulting for someone that did $20 million a year in business. Right, I'm not that guy. Right? So, for instance, you would probably be very comfortable consulting for someone that did 20 million a year in business. Right, I'm not that guy. Right, I'm used to smaller bars. Yeah, independence you approach everything from a much more corporate, regulated way of doing things. Mm-hmm, everything from more of a cowboy fly by the seat of your pants way of doing things, because just the structure you have and the people you have and the support you have when you're doing $24 million is not the same as if you're doing $2.4 million or a million or less than a million, Right.
Chris Schneider:If you're doing less than a million, there's nothing right.
Emily LaRuffa:It's just you do it all. We really should have a conversation, yeah.
Chris Schneider:So it's nice because it gives you a different angle, right, and I think that's when we have conversations. That's one of the great things about it is we're coming at it from two different places. And something I've said a lot to you and on the podcast both is that, especially when we talk about numbers and accounting and stuff like that. You're not really right or wrong. You're just coming from a different place and prime cost can be whatever you want it to be. I had a whole podcast episode on that.
Emily LaRuffa:We've had that conversation.
Chris Schneider:Right, it's just a true thing. But to get into a bit of what you do, because you focus in some specific areas, one of those being cost control, prime cost, that side of that, and that's where I want to start, because, a, that's where you and I will get bogged down the most, but also B, I think that provides a lot of value to the listeners to start to understand perspectives that aren't mine on how we control costs and whatnot, of course. So one of the places that you start, same as me, is with costing menu items, and that is something that most independent bars and restaurants struggle with a lot.
Emily LaRuffa:Right.
Chris Schneider:So I will let you go wherever you want with that. Okay, let's get into costing menu items a little bit.
Emily LaRuffa:Okay, should we set a timer, I'd be smart, we would be. So I mean you can go a couple of different ways. When you're talking about costing a menu, I have worked in venues that have been the 1.5 million to the 3 million and all the way up to the 24 million, you know. So I have the wide range of those financials who work within. I have the wide range of those financials to work within. I have the wide range of a smaller menu and then a larger menu to work within.
Emily LaRuffa:I have had the just satisfaction of working with certain programs as well. You know, satisfaction is not really the right word, but the benefit of it. You know where you're able to put in all of the information you know for every single item. You know whether it's a cocktail menu, whether it's wine, whether it's, and you can break everything down and it ties in with your invoices and it's supposed to be this whole beautiful process that just updates weekly if it works properly, and it continuously updates your costing, and so I have worked with that. But I have also had to do the short cans, the good old excel versions, and I have worked. I have overseen a tiki bar, and if you only imagine what a tiki bar. Uh, you know years ago that I was doing they. They don't have three ingredients. It is 15 ingredients deep and it is. These three are one syrup, but these three, three you know, say thank you, brian Miller for that and I, we had to do everything by Excel. So when you say like independent, businesses.
Chris Schneider:I can range from one to the other. You know and I think that's something that is a strength of mine that I'm able to pivot each way. For sure, and because you brought up Tiki, up tea. Let's have that conversation real quick, because you want to talk about the absolute worst situation to be in for costing cocktails. It's a tea, yes, right, because I always like to tell people that cocktails tend to be easier than food, because food, you have multiple components, cocktails it's normally four things and your measurements are pretty much always the same. That is absolutely the furthest thing from the truth, correct? So if you had a client, let's say that had a Tiki bar, which I know they're not as popular as they used to be. But let's just go down this thought process for a second. How do you even begin to approach costing that? Because you're talking about the tiniest amount of 15 ingredients going into one 12 ounce glass.
Emily LaRuffa:Yeah, first off, you take the easiest part of being the liquor and do that and put that to the side, because you know that that's simple. Costing liquor is the easiest way that you can possibly go with tiki. All the other eight ingredients is where it gets tricky. And then, like I was saying before, these three syrups equal this syrup and then these two equal this. You have to break down each one individually, which isn't great, but I mean, if you look at it as something as simple as a simple syrup or a demerara sugar, different things like that, or another type of syrup that maybe has three or four ingredients, yeah, you have to go down that path. A tiki bar will absolutely take you a lot more time to do, but it is crucially important, especially because you know we could go down this rabbit hole. Garnishes, the garnishes within.
Emily LaRuffa:The tiki world. You have to count every little thing, not that you shouldn't in general, but when you're putting, you know, 151, quarter ounce, everything adds up, you know. So I have, thank goodness, have gone down that path of having to freehand a tiki menu of over 30 cocktails with 15 ingredients in each, and you do it it once you update, you know, as big changes come along. But it is, I mean, just throw some fun in it. Have a little rum oil, you know.
Chris Schneider:That much counting definitely gets difficult. But something you mentioned there that I think deserves a little bit more time on is garnishes. Or with tiki, where you're talking about adding all those different juices. Yeah, because, to your point, liquor is the easy part. Liquor is what most folks do, right, but I mean what a lexardo cherry costs, like 27 cents. So if you have a 20 cost, that means you're adding a buck 25 to your price, just right, right. And that's not anywhere near the complexity that you can have in some cocktails if you start adding cherries to pineapples, to oranges, to this, to that, absolutely. So what is your approach to figuring out the garnish and juice site? Because that's something not a lot of people talk about but is impactful.
Emily LaRuffa:Absolutely.
Emily LaRuffa:I mean going down. Sustainability is a huge thing. You know how can you cross utilize, how can you use every part of every ingredient that you are using. You know so if you're talking about pineapples and you're making pineapple juice, don't throw everything else out. You know that's where you can pull your garnishes from. You know the lemons and limes and the oranges. You can get your twist. You can do your dehydrated garnishes.
Emily LaRuffa:Whatever it may be, everything should be cross utilized across the board within your cocktail menu. I mean, that's just like the number one rule within Tiki. Otherwise, you're really just giving doing a disadvantage, you know, to yourself. So I think that's something that is. The most powerful benefit that you have, you know, to your menu is cross-utilizing. You know once you get into the plastic items and this and that that's where it adds up, because it does add up in the straws. Whatever you want to use for that, especially in this new world of what we do use. But, um, yeah, I think that's. You need to make sure that you're keeping your margins down. So cross-utilization is the most important piece.
Chris Schneider:And I think that's something you hear a lot more on the food side than the liquor side. Right, right, it's not used enough on the liquor side.
Emily LaRuffa:Exactly. It definitely is not used enough, and so I think that's where bars struggle, that they're not able to keep a 15% cost. You know, there are some drinks that are going over 30% and they're like oh, this is normal, this is okay, and it's no, no, no, no. There are definitely ways that you can. You can use this to your advantage, you know, not even just tiki, but just in general, like how?
Emily LaRuffa:is your menu balancing out, you know. And then, obviously, when you're looking at your P mixes and what's the best selling, you know there's strategy behind all of it that goes into costing. So instead of it just being this straight, here are my ingredients, this is the price, this boom, boom, boom. You have to have everything balancing out to your benefit, but that also makes sense for the guest in the area and your comp sets. That's also a big thing too.
Chris Schneider:It is Because none of this works unless it fits in with your concept, unless it fits your guests and, of course, right, none of that matters. But one of the things that you just talked about was P-MIX, because and I think that's when it comes to costing, something a lot of people forget about, right? So what in your mind is the value of looking at your PMIX when you're costing and pricing items?
Emily LaRuffa:It's everything. It's everything. You should be running PMIXs every day and when you're using your software, your POS software. Now it is much easier just to get those reports. Those should be reports that are in manager's hands, owner's hands, every single day. And, yes, you're not changing the choices on your menu based off of that. Maybe more quarterly you should be doing that, but it is absolutely. You need to be able to look at your P-Mix to see what is moving and then to not to let go of things that aren't moving, because all you're doing is then sitting on inventory and that's not also good for you. So you want to make sure that your inventory is constantly moving. So your P mix is where where it's golden for you to figure out. It gives you the answers, is really what I'm trying to say.
Emily LaRuffa:It tells you exactly what you should be doing, because we can, as an owner, we can like what we like, but if guests aren't buying it, then what do we have at the end of the day? That's not helping anything. It's not helping our top line, our guests ratio. It's going down. So there is a fine balance to that as well.
Chris Schneider:The other thing here, too, is that and we've had this conversation a lot when we, when you talk about the relation between pricing, costing p mix and prime cost, because everybody wants to focus on prime cost and say, well, your prime cost should be whatever number they pull out, and that number, if your p mix changes right, can change two or 3% up or down and it has your targets actually changed. But if you're not measuring that, you don't know your targets changed Exactly. So along those lines because this is this is something I know that I feel like for all of us on kind of the finance end is one of our biggest hurdles when we're dealing with people is how do you communicate to folks and what do you do to impress on them that your targets, your P&L targets, are all going to change based upon what you sell, absolutely.
Emily LaRuffa:Yeah, I mean first off. I approach every single business, whether it's bar, whether it's a restaurant, whether it's a hotel food and beverage program. Bar, whether it's a restaurant, whether it's a hotel food and beverage program, it's going to be unique and it's going to everyone's not going to have. There is no industry standard that we can just say this is the prime cost of that. It should be, because there are so many factors that play into that. You know, when you look at your prime cost, first off, your P&L should break everything down. You know it should. Your revenue should be there and that should be very broken down so you can really track everything that's happening. Your purchases and then your labor is obviously separate. You know we're not talking about that now, but that's where your answers are.
Emily LaRuffa:You know, and if something is not working, if your percentages are over, then something is wrong with your current menu, with your P mixes, and when you look at your costing, those are your two data points that are just let me look at my menu costing, my menu pricing, and then my P mixes and what's actually moving. So you need to look at those three elements. But many places that I have encountered don't have that. They just kind of go like oh well, the restaurant down the street is going with $15 a cocktail, let me just go with that, because it's just what we should do. But their finances aren't the same as yours. You need to be able to look at okay, what are we doing? Yes, comp sets are extremely important.
Emily LaRuffa:You need to do that when you're doing your research about when you are putting new things on the menu or making very large changes within. You know, if you're bringing all your cocktails from 17 to $19, whatever that may look like, and you want to make sure that you're just doing it in a fair way, you know. So can you do anything to bring it down? You know, can you look at a different purveyor or a vendor or whatever that may look like and can it be adjusted? So that's something that I really work with my clients one-on-one, because it can go different ways, but it's based upon what their finances are. And so when they say, oh, am I at 60%? Am I at 55%?
Emily LaRuffa:There isn't an industry standard. We have discussed this. There is no such thing as that. Throw it out the window, because every business is different. And so let's find the best prime cost for yours and with your concept and with what you're currently doing, and then let's optimize all of the factors that play into your prime cost and let's find what your goal of your prime cost is.
Chris Schneider:And that's really important because it really is customized. Now I will say I saw a post online the other day that I just know it's funny. It was a guy that owned a bar with some folks. They just opened a few months ago and he was wondering why they weren't making money. Because their food cost was 61%, because they based their prices on being a couple dollars cheaper than the guys down the street. But the thing there is, the reason why I mentioned that is because that is the crazy example of what you just mentioned.
Chris Schneider:Right, when you're not looking at your data and you're just costing based on what you think people want to pay, or what the guy down the street pays, and if every business is different, none of that matters.
Emily LaRuffa:Exactly, exactly, and you shouldn't want to be. You don't want to base your business just based off of what's happening around you. If you have an incredible concept and you're passionate about what you do and the product that you're putting out there is amazing and it's what guests are coming to you for, you know the product and then the hospitality. Those are the two most important pieces. So with that, it's going to be different and you definitely cannot look at and just go a few dollars less. Can you maybe say, okay, I want to be a little bit less than industry standard? Okay, understand, let's look at the comp set, but that's not going to be the deciding factor.
Emily LaRuffa:It's going to be what you currently have, what you're in, what you're sitting on for inventory is extremely important because you can't have anything that's just sitting for two years and not being used.
Emily LaRuffa:That's just holding and weighing you down, because that's just where your cogs are going to get thrown off. That's definitely an important piece, and I just want to start by giving a hug to someone that made decisions, maybe that way, and let them know that we can make better decisions. And I just want to start by giving a hug to someone that made decisions maybe that way, and let them know that we can make better decisions and I'm going to be here every step of the way and also teach them how to do it, so that you know they don't have to go down that rabbit hole and make that mistake again part of prime cost and you mentioned it, so let's go ahead and jump into that conversation is labor and on one hand, labor is a little bit simpler part of prime cost than the food, because it's you don't have to do all these individual costs, right?
Chris Schneider:you're not worried about how much salt costs, correct, that you put on your burger, right? So labor is simpler than that. But really controlling labor cost is way harder because it's not math, it's people, exactly. So how do you approach controlling labor cost? Because that's the hardest part of prime cost to figure out.
Emily LaRuffa:Absolutely. I mean, there are many factors that go into it. How I take my first steps into it is okay, what are your business hours? Okay, let's run the numbers hour by hour. Let's then run our labor numbers. You know, because if you're opening during a certain time where you're staying open later and you're not making any money, all you're doing is just throwing money down the drain based on, you know, for towards labor, and so are you able to make business decisions, high level business decisions that will benefit your prime cost, you know.
Emily LaRuffa:So I think that's an extremely important place to start, because that that's one, one large aspect. And then it's going into. And also, you're not dealing with multiple people. You know 10, 15 hundreds, however many employees you have, that now you're changing their schedules, their livelihoods, their income. So you want to make sure that you're doing your due diligence by looking at your current business, what the model is and what makes sense. You know it doesn't make sense to stay open, paying electricity and this and that over time, if you're not making money, if it's not working. That's not a smart business decision. Five days versus seven days a week that's a huge debate as well, whether it's in New York, opening for lunch and dinner. Now you need three teams in order to not have to go into multiple doubles, in order to not go into overtime and spread of hours. There's so many different factors when you make a large business decision like that that come into play when it comes to labor. So that's the first part that I start with is okay, because this can be a conversation just with senior leadership, ownership and me. Based off of that, then it's going into the hourly employees, obviously, because that's where everything adds up and you normally start with okay, what does your OT look like? What do your spread of hours look like?
Emily LaRuffa:Now let's look at the scheduling and I think the most important piece that businesses, that leaders, don't take advantage of and whether it's because they just want to hold the information for themselves, whatever it may be is training your management team, training your service managers, your AGM, whoever it may be, your beverage director, training them to understand the finances of their labor so that they feel accountable for it as well. If they see that they are scheduling and you're just letting them go and letting them schedule however they see fit and they don't understand the finances, you can't hold them accountable for something they don't know. So it's extremely important that you train your management team to understand what it means of scheduling for doubles, what it means, you know you have to factor in the breaks, and that this, there's so many different things. You have to do with that. And then what does it mean for overtime, you know, and spread of hours, and are you then I mean, that goes into another whole conversation Are you then working your employees, you know, to the bone and draining them, you know? Is that also a factor?
Emily LaRuffa:Now that then plays into the culture piece? So it's all these you know concepts all tie in together and are all extremely important. They all matter. And so my big thing is training management to understand what their labor financials are. And if that means starting, you know, if a company does use a scheduling app, it does the math for you, you know, so you can see that, and then they can make changes, you know. And then it's also not even just how they schedule, but then how they're operating on a day-to-day basis. You know how they're making their cuts, what does that look like? And so that's also a factor that if you don't train your management team to do that properly, you can't get mad at them, you can't say you're not doing your job properly if you haven't laid out the information and you haven't trained them properly and you haven't given them the tools to succeed.
Emily LaRuffa:So those are the two big pieces. Sorry, I know that was probably a long winded answer.
Chris Schneider:No, no, it's a perfect answer, but I think one of the things too in there is you have to train your management folks on the financials Right. But that also means that you have to give them access to the financials Right, because I feel like a lot of small businesses, especially ones that aren't doing great, the owners don't. It's an ego thing.
Chris Schneider:They don't want to admit to their team hey, we're not really making money. And on one hand, I understand that, because if you tell everyone that works for you, hey, I'm not making money, they might go find another job. On the other hand, your managers cannot improve a number they don't see. So, with that being true, how do you go about convincing people to share that data that they're embarrassed or afraid to share with other people in their business.
Emily LaRuffa:My main approach to that is empowerment. Empowerment leads to loyalty and then loyalty. Then you can incentivize from there. You know, I look at every manager of where are they going to be in a year? How do I get them to the next level? What does that look like? If I'm not teaching them everything I know, then I'm not doing my job properly as a leader.
Emily LaRuffa:When I was in operations, that means I can't step away from the business and trust that it's going to be run properly and as an owner, you have to be able to do that. You have to be able to trust that your management team understands the business inside and out and I get it. They may not want to share the finances because it may not look great, but if you come to them and you say, all right, I'm going to teach you how this works and I'm going to show you exactly how you can make a difference. Because I trust you and because I want you to be a part of the change, I believe in you and I know that you can handle all of this. Now let me go down that path. To show you everything. To show you what prime cost is. Management doesn't understand. They don't even hear that term. You know they don't even know what controllables are. You're just purchasing disposables left and right and just linen, not making adjustments, because you don't teach them that. So I look at it like, okay, let's train the management to understand the finances, because they are going to feel completely empowered, knowing that they're making a difference. Then they're going to inspire the employees of great. Okay, let me see what the guest average check was. How can we get that better? And then it trickles down, you know. Then you're going down to the employees and then the employees are obviously going to, you know, step it up, because they're being inspired and led not managed, but led by their leaders and at the end of the day, that's only going to benefit you as an owner.
Emily LaRuffa:That's what I truly think, and I think that is a big place that is missing in our industry is not training the leadership team, the management team, properly, or whether it's your head bartender, even if you have supervisors, let them in on this information. And then another piece on top of it is make sure you incentivize them. You know, yes, you're learning this information. And then another piece on top of it is make sure you incentivize them. You know, yes, you're learning this information. You are going to be able to build your career based off of knowing this. I'm teaching you what I know as a director or as a GM, so that one day you can be in my shoes, because I believe in you. But if I don't teach it to you, how are you ever going to get here? You know.
Emily LaRuffa:So what does that look like? They want to see the path of growth. You know. They want to know that they're believed in. They want to know that they're trusted and empowered and then held accountable. You know, that's the big thing. You know that I. It comes with it is if they understand, you can hold them accountable. You can't hold them accountable.
Chris Schneider:So that's really what it comes down to.
Emily LaRuffa:So how are you going to incentivize them? Is it through bonuses? Is it through profit sharing? What is that going to look like, you know? So I think that's a very important piece that you will see your numbers jump up so quickly Once you put the time and energy into your leadership team the way that they won want to be in it.
Chris Schneider:They want to be taken care of.
Emily LaRuffa:They want to learn. They're eager. They want to be taken care of. They want to learn. They're eager. They yearn for it because we know this it's much easier to take a frontline job, to bartend just leave, work a great eight-hour shift, make your money, go home and you don't get a single email. You just show up the next day. That's a lot easier than being a restaurant or a bar manager, where it's constant the fire alarm goes off at two in the morning. I'm getting a phone call. There isn't that? So I think that's an important part of it.
Chris Schneider:For sure, and the worst part about that is that the bartender often is making more than the manager and the owner. I mean, I hate to say it that way, but it yeah, I own the bar, no I. It took me five years of owning a bar to make more than one of my servers Right. That was just how that worked.
Emily LaRuffa:Yeah, I mean, it's true.
Chris Schneider:And it's very true, it's all right.
Emily LaRuffa:And so how can you incentivize the managers to be okay with that? Because they do payroll. They see how much everyone's making. How do you get them inspired to want to be in the role that they're in and grow within that and help grow others as well? So I think that's your job as a leader, and by letting them in. That's how they're going to feel empowered and be able to grow the business.
Chris Schneider:And I know another fear that people have about training managers to that level, because they say, well, I'm going to put all this time and effort in them and then they're going to go somewhere else Because somebody else will be able to offer them a better job than I have, especially if you're an independent. If you're an independent working at a bar that I own that did 1.5 million and you're GM okay, now you can go work for a bigger company where there's more upward mobility. In my mind at least, though, if you can train people and send them out into the world and they're successful, that just means you did a really good job, and your problem is you didn't develop a bench.
Emily LaRuffa:Correct. It's a win. That's what I want. I never want to hold someone back as much as I don't want to lose someone and no one wants to lose that amazing AGM and taking a job as a GM somewhere else. But why are you doing what you do? You want them to do that because they're going to go off and they're going to teach other people to do it At the end of the day again.
Emily LaRuffa:That's what I loved about operations. Yes, I love the food and beverage and the guests experience. Of course, I love all that, but my biggest passion was helping people grow and so if you hold that back from them and you hold their career back, you're just doing a disservice and again it means you didn't do your job. You know so great. You have taught this person to do it. Now duplicate that. You have taught this person to do it Now duplicate that. And that's a big thing of what I do is okay. I'm going to teach the ownership. I'm going to coach and work with and guide the senior leadership. Make sure they understand this so that then they can delegate and then we could go down a rabbit hole of delegation.
Emily LaRuffa:Delegation is the most important thing, as we know. So they will start to teach other people. So, even before they go, or if they bring, like we hire someone else to take their spot, then they can teach them and you can continue doing what you do, focusing on the higher level of the business, and they can train that person. But what I do also hope, too, is that there's, when you empower someone, there's a loyalty that happens and they're they care, and you know they, they become your friend, whatever it may be there we talk about this as a restaurant family, you know, and so I think that's also an important piece is to keep that open line of communication of what do you need? You know, how can I, if you're helping me improve my business, need you know, how can I, if you're helping me improve my business, let me make sure that you are growing financially as well, you know? Are you receiving time off? Are you receiving health benefits?
Emily LaRuffa:Many small business owners don't do that, you know. So how can you incentivize your leadership team to also stay with you, you know? Are you then going to open up another place? And here's your promotion I'm going to let you open it up, you know. So what does that look like? And I think there are many different answers of having conversations, honest conversations, of what is important to them. I've never had a manager leave without me knowing that they were leaving, without me understanding and knowing that it was coming, because we always had conversations about it. And there have been times that I've said I'm not able to provide what you're looking for. I'm giving you this blessing and let me help you. That's the biggest thing that I can do, you know.
Emily LaRuffa:And so it's also okay, doing that too. Then what's next, you know? So I I think what we need to do is, instead of staying in a scarcity mindset about losing everyone because we can think about it as employees or managers is, how can we make the best experience for everyone that works for you so that they can grow and, whether it's with you or whether it's with another company, restaurant, bar, whatever it may be that they can take that and teach other people? So don't live in a scarcity mindset. That's my biggest thing is. You will be able to find someone else if you have that reputation that you invest in your people.
Chris Schneider:Well, and that's a lot of folks on the labor side of this business, especially now and because of everything with COVID and everything else, are driven by this scarcity of labor concept. Right, and I think both you and I have seen the same thing across the industry which is labor is scarce for people that don't have a great team experience. Exactly, for people that do have a great team experience, labor is not scarce at all. They still have stacks of applications from people that are hugely qualified that will come work for them at the drop of a hat.
Emily LaRuffa:Absolutely.
Chris Schneider:So because and that gap is larger now than it used to be pre-COVID right. It used to be okay. Some places were a little bit better. Now you see a huge disparity between the top employers and the lower end. So how do you become one of those top employers? What is it that takes you from scarcity of labor to abundance of labor?
Emily LaRuffa:Have you ever sat in on an interview with one of your managers? Do you know how they interview? Do you know what they're looking for? What is your culture? Define that? What are you looking for? What are your goals? What are your employees looking for? Are you? What is your culture? Define that? What are you looking for? What are your goals? What are your employees looking for? You know, are you killing them with the hours that you're scheduling? Are you asking for feedback?
Emily LaRuffa:There are so many different ways you know that you can approach it. So I think it's you want to have the best culture, you know, and that comes down to your employees and your management team. And how are you giving into both? And I know it sounds like a lot, but if you start one with you as the leader and you provide that to your leadership team, it's their job to provide that to the employees. You know, and that's the most important piece you will be able to retain employees. They will want to stay with you if they feel empowered to retain employees. They will want to stay with you If they feel empowered. Empowerment equals loyalty. That's what I believe. You provide that voice. You ask someone's opinion.
Emily LaRuffa:A big thing I would always say is listen. The management team came up with this idea. We're going to try it. Throw it against the wall. If it sticks and works, great, just give it two weeks. That's all I ask. If it sticks and works, great, just give it two weeks. That's all I ask. Any new change just give it two weeks to see if it actually works. If not, let's gather the feedback and let's make a change. I'll be the first to raise my hand and say I made a mistake. That didn't work. Okay, let's change it.
Emily LaRuffa:You know so many leaders are afraid to make changes, but if they're not making those operational changes constantly by receiving feedback, but also having the team trust in them of there are reasons why we're doing this. Trust us, then we will take the feedback and make the adjustments because you want it to work for everyone. So working on making sure that you provide that to both of those teams is going to increase communication and trust and loyalty, because they feel heard. That's the big reason why people leave the restaurant that they're in. It's.
Emily LaRuffa:My manager never listened to me. There wasn't an open door policy. You know. You hear that you hear. No one wanted to hear my concerns. You know when I came to them with an issue whether it was a guest issue or another employee issue they didn't listen to me. It starts with you and how you train your management team and how you empower them to make those decisions, because then that's just. You have to nurture both of those aspects in order to have a great culture, and so really how you treat your managers becomes how your managers treat your frontline employees Right, right.
Chris Schneider:So it's treat your frontline employees Right, right. So it's all trickle down in it Exactly Whether you're the owner, or if you work for a bigger company and you're the GM or whatever, it all starts at you, absolutely. Now, with that. One of the things that you had brought up was work-life balance, and work-life balance in the restaurant industry is horrendous, and in the bar industry, I would argue it's worse. I agree, because restaurants aren't open until three or four in the morning, correct? So how do you put people in a position where they can have a work-life balance when you're talking sometimes about 12-hour shifts that start at five and end at five in the morning, that start at five and end at five in the morning, and let alone the fact that that's a long shift, but also the hours don't provide for a good work-life balance. The work is stressful and hard, so how do you give those folks a?
Emily LaRuffa:work-life balance Two ways. The first, most important piece is making sure that your employees feel supported. Do they have the tools on a daily basis to succeed? You know, that is one important piece. If you're talking about a bartender, do they have the tools on a daily basis to succeed? That is one important piece. If you're talking about a bartender, do they have the right tools? Are they saying they need more bar tools? Are they saying their POS systems are not working? Whatever it may be, that's the first piece that you need to look at is how are you nurturing and taking care of your team by making sure that they are set up for success. That's the first part, are you? And then all the other business decisions come into play. So how are you scheduling them? Are they standing around? I mean, I remember those shifts, chris, of being there from five to five. You don't mind being there from five to five when you are making money.
Emily LaRuffa:So what does that look like? You know how are you making business decisions, for that Is it dead from two to 4am. You know how are you making business decisions, for that Is it dead from 2 to 4 am. You know New York City is 4 am. Is it dead? So does that make sense? Or are your employees standing around going why are we here? Just let me go?
Emily LaRuffa:You know, then they get frustrated and then they get mad at management. You know so. It's as an owner you have to take responsibility for all of that, because your business decisions, your high level business decisions, affect everyone. You know. So there's, there's not a single employee that is a frontline employee that will not work if they are making the money. With that being said, then how are you scheduling them? You know, are you scheduling them seven days a week, which you shouldn't, you know? Are you scheduling them four days a week? Are you shouldn't? Are you scheduling them four days a week? Are you listening to everyone? Are you listening to the request? Obviously you can't. It would be crazy to sit here and say give everyone the schedule that they want.
Emily LaRuffa:Of course, that's impossible.
Chris Schneider:But you have to be closed every holiday.
Emily LaRuffa:You know, put in place like the lottery, do something fun, creative, of like how to work these holidays, but also is it important to be open on those days. You know what does that look like, and so that was a big piece with. My last operating job was we were closed Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. My last operating job was we were closed.
Chris Schneider:Christmas.
Emily LaRuffa:Eve and Christmas Day, you know, and that in and of itself for people to, there were years that I missed holidays. There were years that I missed huge birthday parties or weddings with family members that I regret to this day not taking off that time.
Emily LaRuffa:I absolutely regret that, you know, because there was no such thing as work life balance Right, and it has become a demand nowadays. After the last four years, since the shutdown, people left this industry because of that. They were sick of it. They said I'd rather just go work a nine to five. Yes, it's less money, but at least I have my nighttime and I have this and I have that and pull it into what we do and make a difference.
Emily LaRuffa:And it's the little things, you know. They obviously know that they're gonna be coming in working long hours doing what we do, but how are you supporting them during that time, you know. And then how are you scheduling them during that time? You know? So those are all important pieces. And again, if you train your management to do it properly and to receive the feedback from the employees and give them off two days in a row, I'm sorry, there's no reason.
Emily LaRuffa:Maybe it's every once in a while that they need, you know you need to break it up, but work your schedule so that it does work out for your employees that way, especially if they're on the front line and they're on their feet for 12 hours. You have to give that to them, you know, otherwise you're going to burn them out and then they're going to quit. So you're not setting yourself up for success if you're not making the right business decisions by keeping that in mind. So I think that is an extremely important part for employees that you need, and it's also an important part of management. There was never a time that I ever did not schedule management without a weekend. They always had two days off in a row and I always said disconnect, turn off your phone.
Emily LaRuffa:I'm never going to text you. No one's going to text you. You may get an email. Don't check your email. I would send so many emails back to my managers and be like stop emailing, it's your day off, go enjoy yourself. You have to unwind, you have to disconnect, otherwise you just get burnt out, and that's what happened to a lot of people, and so we had an opportunity a couple of years ago to look at how can we make that change. A huge part that came into play was bringing technology in Certain systems. Certain POS systems, reservation systems make it so much easier reservation systems make it so much easier.
Emily LaRuffa:You know that the numbers can be run. Everything can be done a lot easier If you are doing it with a software program versus Excel. How much time are you saving? That is the most important piece, and so I actually went down. You know I was in charge of a whole analysis of management and where they're spending their time during, you know, analysis of management and where they're spending their time.
Emily LaRuffa:During the shutdown of what that looked like and I had to break down how long it took to do Excel scheduling and then how long it took to copy and paste using a scheduling app. What is the difference? So, in all of those minutes, add it up and add it up to at least a difference of 15 hours a week. That's huge for a manager and it added up to at least a difference of 15 hours a week, that's huge for a manager. Like unbelievable. That's enormous when you bring in the right technology. That's what it comes down to, you know.
Emily LaRuffa:So there are, you know, in the technology apps nowadays. There's so many in the field. They're competitive with their prices. They want you For sure. They're begging, begging for you to work with them, absolutely. So it's definitely doable, it's definitely possible and it will work to your advantage with your employees, with your management and then you as an owner, knowing what's going on in your business without having to go searching for the information. It's all there for you. Data is what you can make business decisions on. It's all there for you. Data is what you can make business decisions on. But if you don't have the right data and the analysis and the understanding of it as well, then you're just selling yourself short, then it's not even worth looking at. Okay, what are these numbers If you don't understand where they're coming from?
Chris Schneider:Absolutely. And three things. There were a few things there, we'll see if I remember all three of them that struck me that I want to just touch on real quick, one of them being that if tech saves you 15 hours, it's cheap, right? You can't just look at it as an added cost, correct, because now you have a manager freed up for 15 hours that can do things that drive more revenue. Correct, and you'll cover that cost in no time.
Emily LaRuffa:Exactly. If they're spending more time with their employees and guest facing, that's where your revenue is going to go up. If they're in the office having to do admin work all day, that's not what their job should be. So one thing that I do with one of my programs is I help leaders break down what it is that their expectations for their management team is, on a not only admin responsibilities but a day-to-day basis, and I think that is something that is extremely important and that is something that I struggled with not receiving for years in my roles you know, as in management roles of not knowing if I was doing a good job because the expectations were not laid out for me.
Emily LaRuffa:So there was this constant anxiety of oh gosh, am I doing the right? Like the right am I? I know my shift ends at 10. Should I still be here? Like there, you don't.
Emily LaRuffa:You're not giving permission for them to be able to empower themselves and so a big. I have never stepped into an operation that had the system set in place to teach their management team One. First off, these are your admin responsibilities. First off, is it what you want to do? If you're not a technology person, why am I going to give you updating the menu, pricing and the this and the that? I'm not going to put that on your plate. So that's something that I come in and I do as a consultant is say, let's ask have you ever asked them what do they want to do? What are their goals? What do they like doing? What do they dislike doing on an admin basis, and then from there, it's okay, these are the shifts.
Emily LaRuffa:This is, you know, a 10am breakfast shift, at 2pm, 3pm and then 4pm closer. This is what the expectation is on a day to day basis. You come in at this time. You have, from this time to this time, to do admin work. You have this time to this time to do admin work, then you have lineup, then you have break and then you're. I expect you to be on the floor with your employees and guest facing from this time to this time, then pull off and then finish up your admin. For the last hour of the day when I implemented this program with my management teams, it provided a sense of relief to every single person because they said I didn't know if I was doing the right thing.
Emily LaRuffa:I was never told, I just thought I had to get it all done and so I was doing all my admin work on my day off. Because of course, you're going to get sidetracked when you come in and a million things are being thrown at you and there's call-outs we need to call people in. That's all going to happen. But if you don't set the expectations of their day-to-day when they can do their admin work and what your expectations are for them being guest-facing, you're selling yourself short and you are not. You know, I look at it like if I'm laying out the expectations, I'm taking out the micromanaging. I don't want to do it. I've been micromanaged before. I do not work well with it. My anxiety is through the roof.
Emily LaRuffa:When I was in micromanaging situations, not knowing if you're ever doing a good enough job there was never a time when I implemented these programs and I said, hey, we have to talk that the manager came in or an employee came in and said, okay, let me just have the paper. I know what I did wrong. Like if you have the expectations set and they're going okay, can you help me Like I'm really struggling with this. You know, they know where their areas of growth are needed. If you're communicating with them, you know and so that's an important piece you lay out the expectations, you're empowering, you're being transparent with them, it's going to only help everyone grow. So, again, the long-winded answer to all of that, but I think it's extremely important to have that set in place, and if they know that you are making changes to make their life easier, they're going to be even more dedicated because they feel like they're being heard. Well.
Chris Schneider:I think, it's a very simple concept, but nobody really ever looks at it because, essentially, if you tell your managers what to do and they aren't lazy assholes that are just there to collect a paycheck and not do their job they will do it Right Like it's not. It's not any leap. It's just you as ownership or you as upper level management. You have to be able to articulate what the hell you want them to do Absolutely 100%.
Emily LaRuffa:Most places don't have job descriptions. They don't know what they're supposed to be doing. They're hired in a role that they're like, okay, cool, I have the title. They're hired in a role that they're like, okay cool, I have the title. I don't know what it means, you know. So provide that to them, you know, give them the tools to succeed and let them, let them fly off, let them let them flourish, and you're going to feel so proud because they're able to do that, because they feel empowered to make those decisions in order for them to grow, because they know that they're being supported.
Emily LaRuffa:And a big piece that also that I mentioned, is communication. Do you have your 30, 60, 90 day goals set with each of your managers? Do you, as a leader, know what they are? If you don't, then you're not doing your job. So you can't look at everyone all saying, oh, they're not a good manager, they're not a good employee If you haven't set the expectations, made everything very transparent and also know what they want as well.
Emily LaRuffa:So I would always have weekly or bi-weekly check-ins with management teams. That is something that's extremely important and then, monthly, we would pull in the finances and teach everyone okay, this is where we struggled. This is where I need us to tighten up. You know, this is what we need to do for this next period, so that they feel a part of it. You know, when someone feels a part of a team, they're going to make different decisions because they care and they're going to lean on one another and that's something that was the most beautiful thing to be able to watch that they don't come to me and they lean on each other for the help because they know that they can. You know, there's a different respect level that they end up building within each other, because, if it's oh, they're not doing their job. Well, what is their job?
Chris Schneider:So it's. If you lay out what their job is and all of these expectations, then they can support each other and it doesn't turn into this manager's not pulling their weight on it At least in my experience and I'm curious if you've run across this as well are very much like tell me what my job is, I will do that, but I'm not going to do things you don't tell me are my job and I'm not going to just stand around here and look for things to do. Right, the days of if you're going to lean, you should clean, and that's all you had to say are gone. Right, right.
Emily LaRuffa:Yeah, that's good. I haven't there for a little while, but it was always a good one.
Chris Schneider:Oh, I used to love that, but I employed off people that were older than me so I could get away with it still Not nowadays. It's very different.
Emily LaRuffa:I mean again, if you're setting goals with them and if you lay out the expectations, then there isn't a question. If everything is spread out evenly and spread out so that everything is getting covered, then it's all going to get done and you can hold everyone accountable for it. And then you don't have to worry about that. You don't have to worry about things not being done because everyone knows exactly what they're supposed to be doing every day of every week. They know exactly what their job, their role is, when they need to check in what that looks like. And then again, with your weekly check-ins or bi-weekly, if they're struggling a little bit, you talk to them about it and you provide that support of hey, let's meet at the end of your shift for the first three days so that I can see how I can help you, and you can provide the feedback of where you're struggling, and then I can provide the feedback of how to help you get there. But I'm going to listen to you, because I'm not just going to set up these expectations and just say good luck.
Emily LaRuffa:That doesn't work either. That's not being a leader, that's being a dictator. You can't just do that. You have to show, you have to lead by example. So I think that's something. Sure we can blame it on the generation, but at the same time, if you have the right people that you are nurturing and caring for and that they feel empowered and loyal to, you're not going to run into those issues and then you won't have to say it. That's why I look at it and I know it sounds easy. It's not easy. It's the most difficult thing because the easy you and I have talked about this. The easy thing is the data is are the numbers, like you can make those changes. People is where it's the most difficult part.
Emily LaRuffa:And it is a full-time job to nurture and to learn how to communicate, and learn how to have all of these conversations, whether they're difficult, whether they're easy, whether they're, you know, hoorah rah, getting everyone going. You know, you need to know all of that and you need to just be committed to it. You know is what I think.
Chris Schneider:So it is possible, but it starts with you from the top, and I think that's the because that's come up a few times in this conversation. Right, it all starts from the top, and one of the things that kind of going back a little bit, but that I think we need to highlight when we're talking about it all comes from the top, is when you were saying your managers, they need time off, they need time away, and I think for a lot of like the smaller independents, that's hard to do because, as the owner, you're never off, you're never away, you are working from, oh God, god, I mean I I don't know that there was an hour in seven years of owning a bar.
Chris Schneider:I don't know that there was an hour of the day or a day of the week that I had not received multiple phone calls throughout the year. Right, because it was my phone rang if anything happened and if it was 5 am or 5 pm or sunday or a, it didn't matter. But as an owner, you can't expect your employees to be the same way.
Emily LaRuffa:Of course you can. As much as that sounds great, as much as we would love that, that's not reality, and so I look at it like okay, what can you implement? First off, how many managers? Someone who has a smaller, smaller team if it's you and two other, you're the owner and you have two managers, you know, working with a smaller team. Okay, maybe you need to step in for a week to give them a week off, like that's part, that's an incentive. You know, I will jump in your shoes, I will do it because I know how to do it and I'm okay doing your job. I've been there, I've done it and I'm.
Emily LaRuffa:I don't have an ego to be able to say let me take over for you so you can go away and get married. Do you know the amount of people that couldn't take a honeymoon in this industry because they weren't given the time off? Like, come on. You know that's crazy. So we need to be more supportive across the board, you know, in that sense. So, because otherwise people aren't going to stay, you know, and they need that. They need to disconnect and recharge, like we all do. It's start, but and it starts with the two days off in a row, it starts with their weekend, you know. So I think that's extremely important for everyone to be able to step back and have that time off.
Emily LaRuffa:And again, a thing that I struggled with and you just said it is your phone's going off 24 seven the amount of times I I would always preach okay, don't respond on your day off. I had to stop myself many times from sending emails at two o'clock in the morning because and I would just put them in my outbox and I said, okay, this isn't good, this isn't going to be received. Well, if I'm telling everyone I'm preaching to take the time off, if I'm sitting here responding at 2am, that's not beneficial, because then they look at it like, oh, I need to be doing nothing on my time off because she's doing it. So that's something that you have to change your mindset and just manage your time better, you know. Manage your time, manage your uh, the expectations, the day to day, and structure everything differently, you know. So that that's what I do is I come in and I help figure that all that out.
Emily LaRuffa:And it's not, it's not the exact same for every single place. Every place is different and every place has a different manager, you know, and it's not even just about how many managers but they have every. Every person is different, so you have to tip things and make things work for everyone. So every single place is different. And that's where what I love, you know, is that it's fun for me, you know, to be able to say, okay, we're working with different personalities, you know, and different goals and things like that. So that's an important part of but do you know that, as an owner, as a leader, do you understand that that's where it starts? And if you don't, then you have to start there.
Chris Schneider:Well, and that also ties back to kind of the beginning of our conversation, because every place is different, Right, and I don't care if you're talking about employee management, if you're talking about how to motivate your leadership, if you're talking about you know your P and L and your prime costs every place is different, and I know I've said this about this podcast before, but we try to offer a lot of varied perspectives and often say here are some industry averages, but not everything works for everybody and if you aren't focused on, if you come into this business too rigid, you will fail.
Chris Schneider:Oh yeah, you have to understand where the guidelines are and the guardrails are and you know the things. There's some things like serving meat off the floor right, you just can't do that. But short of things like that that are just blatantly health violations and illegal, it's not like every place has to be the same, or everyone has to do the same or think the same I agree completely.
Emily LaRuffa:Yeah, and that's the beauty you know of what we do. You know that we're able to help everyone realize what it is that they have and work within that. I'm not looking to bring in the same to every single business, because that's just not doable. I never went from every business in my career. There wasn't a single place that was the same. I had to constantly and, trust me, I'm a very type A OCD, so I struggled finding the gray area. I still do. It's something I have to constantly remind myself of. It's okay to be in the gray area. It's more fun to be in that area. If this industry was black and white, we probably wouldn't be in it. Most of the people wouldn't be in it Probably not.
Emily LaRuffa:We choose this really hard industry for gosh knows what reasons, but we have to find a gray area.
Chris Schneider:I mean, I'll tell you, because I went from hospitality to bookkeeping and accounting type work. Now I'm back and that is the sole reason because there is great space in accounting and bookkeeping but it's not as much fun as ours, because it's just like well, I can move this number two lines. Being stuck in just numbers all day long, as much as I love them, is not not fun compared to dealing with people and all the variables involved in our industry and the impact you can have.
Chris Schneider:Of course, absolutely Right, because we have a unique opportunity to A help a lot of people start their careers. Correct, because almost everybody, most employees in this business start as college students, right, or high school students, and so we can help people grow their careers. We can help them gain skills that'll be with them through their whole lives. We can help them with a lot of complex problem solving and dealing with situations that in no other industry you come across right, right and that's have one mad customer at you when you're 15 and you learn that lesson.
Emily LaRuffa:Oh yeah.
Chris Schneider:And so it's just a wonderful thing, and it's the approach you take to the employee side and the management side, and really developing them is something a lot of people talk about, but a lot of people try to make it too rigid, right.
Emily LaRuffa:And you can't. I mean, we've all worked for those managers that live in the black and white and are the micromanagers. It's not working out, they're not in that role anymore, that place may not be open anymore, and it's because of that, it's because they didn't invest and they didn't find the gray area, and again, I struggle with it. But it's what I find is where the creativity comes from, where the storytelling comes from, and so that's what inspires me every single day, that I love living in this area.
Chris Schneider:Because of that, for sure, and we've been talking for a while now, so we've got to wrap it up, but I warned everybody before we started that we would go down rabbit holes and end up in weird spots, so we delivered on that promise right, we struggled to keep going back down. But we set expectations. We hit the expectations right Perfect experience.
Emily LaRuffa:Exactly, and my earphone just came out. Of course, hold on, that'll happen. I'm Italian, I get a little excited.
Chris Schneider:Yeah, but with that, because we are getting towards the end, is there anything else that you wanted to touch on that we have not had the opportunity to bring up yet?
Emily LaRuffa:One area that we definitely have not touched on that I think is also extremely important is guest feedback. You know we've touched on everything within the business, so we've touched on the employees and the management and the culture and the numbers and the prime cost, all of those pieces. But you don't have a restaurant or a bar or hotel if you don't have guests coming in every single day. It's where it comes from. So what does that look like? And so something that I think is crucial to your business is the information that you receive from your guests. It's guest feedback. Are you tracking it? What are you doing? You know guest recovery the amount of loyal customers guests that I have had over the years had some difficulty. You know were a guest recovery. They turn into loyal guests for years. You know they're the ones that you know are going to sit at bar seat 14 every single night at 5 PM, but it didn't start with them just being the happiest person or them being happy with every single thing that they encountered.
Emily LaRuffa:And so something that is extremely important to your business are NPS programs. What does that look like? And again, we can go down this rabbit hole If you're going zero to 10. To make it simple, who are the people that are going around spreading word of mouth? I can tell you in my experiences I remember places that I have gone to that I did not have the best experience, but it was how the employee, how the server, the captain, the bartender fixed the situation, how the manager followed up with the situation and made it into a great experience. That, at the end of the day, is why I continue going back to that restaurant or that bar and became a regular there, because, you know, because of that, because I saw how much the employee and the manager cared to make me feel heard and my concerns feel heard and make the changes for it.
Emily LaRuffa:And again, like I will also preface this, but that and you're probably the same way we are the last people to speak up when something is wrong, because we never want to be that person. My best and loyal guests for over the years were always someone that spoke up because they cared. If a guest is speaking up, it means that they care, and so if you are not tracking that feedback, you're selling yourself short, you're not learning where you need to make the changes, where you are making mistakes. You're not learning if you're not training your employees properly If your leaders, if your managers, aren't interacting, your guests are going to tell you everything that you need to know. So are you tracking it? Who is tracking it? Who is reaching out to the guests? What does that guest recovery look like? So that's an extremely important part that I tie in within the prime cost conversation, because if you don't nurture your NPS program, then at the end of the day, your top line revenue is going to suffer.
Emily LaRuffa:So it's hand in hand you know all the the finances, but where the finances are coming from, where the guests are spending the money on, is the most important part that goes into it. If you don't have guests, you don't have revenue, and so you need to hear them. And then you need to teach your team, and a big part is you need to empower them, set the guidelines of what they can do so that they don't have to call the owner saying is this okay if I do this for this guest? What does that look like? Do you have programs in place, mini martini shots or whatever it may be, or something food-wise, something you follow up with that is set as a guest recovery, waiting for a table? Are you greeting them with just a glass of champagne? What does that look like? That's what they're going to remember. They're going to hear. I'm sorry, we've made a mistake.
Emily LaRuffa:People want honesty. If you say, oh yeah, your table, it's coming up in 10 minutes and you know it's going to be 45 minutes, you're selling yourself short. So don't allow your employees and your managers to live in a scarcity factor with it. Allow them to feel empowered to make a change, and that's where it all comes from. So I think that's one important piece that we haven't touched on, and we can go down NPS for hours again, but that's something that's crucially important in the business as well.
Chris Schneider:It is, and rather than subject, everyone listening to that whole two-hour conversation that you and I have had before. I'm just going to let them go for the day. So just to wrap up, Emily, thank you so much for being here.
Emily LaRuffa:Of course. Thank you for having me.
Chris Schneider:It's been a very fun conversation. And I know we've hit on some things that are different in the way that we're talking more about that employee experience and how that not just how to have a great employee experience, but why a great employee experience affects your guest experience, it affects your numbers, it affects your ability as an owner to have life.
Emily LaRuffa:Of course, it's a complete circle.
Chris Schneider:It is it, of course. It's a complete circle episode. Make sure you like, subscribe, leave a review, share this with your friends. Uh, if you want to learn more and and interact with other bar owners, join bar business nation on facebook. That's our facebook group, where we're building a community of bar owners all together to support each other and be able to rely on each other and have people to bounce things off of that actually have some concept of what it is to be a bar owner and can give some advice. That means something and, as always, everybody. I just hope you have a great day and we will talk again later.
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